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Leaders of Paola church asked to resign from session
By: Brian McCauley, bmccauley@miconews.com
About two weeks after declaring that there is a schism at First Presbyterian Church in Paola, an administrative commission of the Heartland Presbytery has asked members of the church's session to resign.
In June, more than 70 percent of the church's voting congregation members asked to be dismissed with property from the Presbyterian Church (USA) so they could join the conservative Evangelical Presbyterian Church and remain at their current location at 110 E. Peoria St. The vote was 229 to 83 in favor of dismissal.
An administrative commission of the Heartland Presbytery based in Kansas City, Mo., denied the session's request in September, and both sides have been communicating through letters for weeks in an attempt to avoid pushing the conflict into the court system.
According to one of Heartland Presbytery's letters, mailed to congregation members on Oct. 25, members of the church were given 30 days to notify the church to terminate their membership or request a transfer to a different denomination.
“Those members who do not provide written notification by November 24, 2007, shall remain members of the FPC (First Presbyterian Church) Paola and the Presbyterian Church (USA),” according to the letter.
Members of the church's session responded by urging its congregation to take no action in regard to the PC (USA)'s request.
An attorney for the session sent another letter on Oct. 30, proposing a deal to the commission. According to the letter, if the Heartland Presbytery would grant the request for dismissal with property, the session would agree to take on the $950,000 mortgage, donate $40,000 to a “new ministry start-up” fund for members who don't wish to realign with the EPC and make the church building available to those members for worship and witness, subject to reasonable restrictions and for a time period not to exceed one year.
The commission's attorney responded in a Nov. 5 letter, saying the offer was “not well received.”
“Those seeking dismissal from the Presbyterian Church (USA) are not entitled to the church property, and it would be inappropriate and contrary to the Book of Order for the administrative commission to discuss any resolution that would take the church property away from the true church,” attorney Allan V. Hallquist wrote in the letter.
“Many of those members contributed to the building and operations of FPC Paola for more than 40 or 50 years. … To suggest that they might be willing to leave the church for $40,000 and the opportunity to use the church facilities 'subject to reasonable restrictions and for a time period not to exceed one year' reflects a lack of grace and was offensive to the administrative commission,” Hallquist wrote.
Although a solution has not been reached, Hallquist did write that he expects the commission to “go forward with proceedings to determine whether the session is able to manage the affairs of the true church or whether it should assume original jurisdiction until a new session is elected from members of the true church.”
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In June, more than 70 percent of the church's voting congregation members asked to be dismissed with property from the Presbyterian Church (USA) so they could join the conservative Evangelical Presbyterian Church and remain at their current location at 110 E. Peoria St. The vote was 229 to 83 in favor of dismissal.
An administrative commission of the Heartland Presbytery based in Kansas City, Mo., denied the session's request in September, and both sides have been communicating through letters for weeks in an attempt to avoid pushing the conflict into the court system.
According to one of Heartland Presbytery's letters, mailed to congregation members on Oct. 25, members of the church were given 30 days to notify the church to terminate their membership or request a transfer to a different denomination.
“Those members who do not provide written notification by November 24, 2007, shall remain members of the FPC (First Presbyterian Church) Paola and the Presbyterian Church (USA),” according to the letter.
Members of the church's session responded by urging its congregation to take no action in regard to the PC (USA)'s request.
An attorney for the session sent another letter on Oct. 30, proposing a deal to the commission. According to the letter, if the Heartland Presbytery would grant the request for dismissal with property, the session would agree to take on the $950,000 mortgage, donate $40,000 to a “new ministry start-up” fund for members who don't wish to realign with the EPC and make the church building available to those members for worship and witness, subject to reasonable restrictions and for a time period not to exceed one year.
The commission's attorney responded in a Nov. 5 letter, saying the offer was “not well received.”
“Those seeking dismissal from the Presbyterian Church (USA) are not entitled to the church property, and it would be inappropriate and contrary to the Book of Order for the administrative commission to discuss any resolution that would take the church property away from the true church,” attorney Allan V. Hallquist wrote in the letter.
“Many of those members contributed to the building and operations of FPC Paola for more than 40 or 50 years. … To suggest that they might be willing to leave the church for $40,000 and the opportunity to use the church facilities 'subject to reasonable restrictions and for a time period not to exceed one year' reflects a lack of grace and was offensive to the administrative commission,” Hallquist wrote.
Although a solution has not been reached, Hallquist did write that he expects the commission to “go forward with proceedings to determine whether the session is able to manage the affairs of the true church or whether it should assume original jurisdiction until a new session is elected from members of the true church.”
Comments on "Leaders of Paola church asked to resign from session"
Comments are limited to 200 words or less.Tim wrote on Nov 19, 2007 10:46 AM:
" I personally believe that an overture should be introduced at the coming GA that would eliminate the property "trust clause" from the Book of Order and allow a particular church to leave with its property by a 2/3 majority vote of the congregation. The denomination's fight for property only allows the evil one to have a field day in our midst as we see with the Administrative Commission's dealing with the Paola church and its leaders. Several churches across the denomination have been allowed to leave with their property by paying some sort of penalty fee. The commission doesn't appear to be open to any such agreement. I too wonder how 50 to 80 people are going to make monthly payments on the $950,000 debt and handle the cost of doing ministry. The Presbytery certainly cannot handle the payments.
Along with the Commission's mandate comes the authority to remove a Pastor simply because s/he has introduced the topic of leaving the denomination; it is absurd. This whole issue of property and to whom it belongs only sets us on the pathway of sin and hatred and takes our eyes off the kingdom of God. It's sad. "
Robert Burdge wrote on Nov 16, 2007 8:20 PM:
" Rev. Herring,
Different situations call for different methods of love. Jesus lovingly told the Pharisees that they were "white washed tombs full of dead men's bones". He did not speak out of spite, but to spur them to repentance. Jesus saved his sternest words for wayward religious leaders. I hold no personal animosity towards individual members of the Administrative Commission or the leadership of the PCUSA. But I am convinced that they are sliding down a slope to apostasy in their Faith. The Commission has decreed ownership of the property to a small minority of members, and is willing to back this up in court with the PCUSA's deep pockets. This decision had nothing to do with promoting the cause of Christ and everything to do with trying to maintain wealth within a dying denomination. The Presbytery's laughably grandiose attempt to "ban" Kirk from preaching to Church's outside the PCUSA shows their true heart. Those remaining in the PCUSA are in my prayers - they will need it. Nearly every member active in ministry at FPC is leaving. "
Rev. Chad Herring wrote on Nov 16, 2007 1:26 PM:
" While hurt feelings and confusion is understandable, I find the remarks against other minister and elder members in Heartland Presbytery and in the PCUSA greatly disturbing, and not at all in line with the will of Christ as revealed in Scripture. How is this "speaking the truth in love?" It is not.
It is clear that those who want to leave the PCUSA assume certain things that are contested and in dispute, and are hurt that their wishes are not being granted and that those whom our polity assigns to adjudicate them have disagreed with their assessment. Their disappointment, hurt, and dismay are understandable (even if, as I understand it, they are grievously misled).
Regardless of any of the facts of the matter, from these comments alone, it is clear that whatever the behavior of the presbytery has been, they are not the main "crabbed, narrow, and mean-spirited" ones. And that is a shame. In a different spirit, let me end this way: May God's grace abide with all those at First Presbyterian Church of Paola, whether they remain there or tarry to another community gathered around the name of Christ. "
Bob wrote on Nov 16, 2007 4:05 AM:
" The PCUSA is an apostate sect which, through its unorthodox polity and beliefs has become heretical and no longer a part of the true Christian church. When a group of true believers seeks to follow Christ, and depart from this unequal yoke with a denomination that no longer believes in the God of the bible, they get "stung" for money and property. The denomination and its leadership are the ones who no longer believe the Bible to be inerrent, nor believe that Jesus provided the singular sacrifice which saves us from our sins. The PCUSA has left the church... not the other way around. "
Allen Marshall wrote on Nov 15, 2007 11:41 PM:
" The moderator of the Committee on Ministry is probably behind this. He wants revenge for having lost twice in a per capita case brought by the Paola Church against the Presbytery. How petty. How sad. The Administrative Commission gives Christianity and Presbyterians a bad name. But, we must remember that it is the PCUSA leadership that has abandoned traditional Christianity, not the good decent pastors and folks at churches like Paola. Heartland should be renamed Heartless Presbytery. Thoughts and prayers are with the pastor and congregation in Paola. "
Doug wrote on Nov 15, 2007 8:08 PM:
" Nate O, Your allegations against Pastor Kirk seem to be blatantly unfair and biased.
If he took an ordination vow to "abide by denominational polity" (defined as the organization or structure used by a religious group) then "casts it aside when it doesn't suit their purposes", what did the PUP report represent? Was it not also a material departure from prior denomination polity and theocracy?
Worst of all, isn't it seemingly in conflict from John 14:6? (Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.) Was the Gospel likewise cast aside when it didn't suit the denomination's purpose?
Using names like demagogue and idol worshipers don't seem to even be germane to this discussion. "
Robert Burdge wrote on Nov 15, 2007 10:42 AM:
" Nate,
I was ordained as an Elder at FPC. You may question my faith, but I contend that it is the PCUSA that has demonstrated lack of faith by their actions. I will never place ordination vows to an earthly religious group above my service to Christ. The PCUSA voided my vows when they began to preach another Jesus.
As for your ad hominem attacks against our Pastor, do you know the man? I was on Session in 2000 dealing with problems with the PCUSA. I was ready to leave then and join a more faithful denomination that wasn't "re-imagining" the Christian Faith. Kirk was adamant in trying to reform the PCUSA from the inside.
It wasn't until the PCUSA, via the PUP report, invented their concept of "optional obedience" to Christian principles that he decided that he could not remain in the denomination.
If he was driven by ego, as you accuse, he could have kept his mouth shut and continued to enjoy the benefits of leading a very prosperous Church. "
Bill Martin wrote on Nov 15, 2007 9:14 AM:
" Been there. Done that. Like the Paola church, we sensed a divided house before a scheduled vote, but unlike Paola, we canceled the vote, and about half the congregation simply left to begin a new EPC congregation in St. Petersburg, Florida. I pray you get the property, but even if you do not, God is faithful and life goes on. We are doing beautifully, having walked away from an $8 million property, without so much as a paper clip. Press on, my brothers and sisters. "
John W. West wrote on Nov 14, 2007 8:44 PM:
" I drove a bus from another Presbyterian Church where the administrative commission involved in this case was appointed and given its charter. This was the most unloving non compassionate meeting I have attended in my 68 years. Numerous alterations were proposed and voted down. One member of the commission with an obvious hatred for the current pastor was objected to on the basis of a conflict of interest and that was voted down. My wife went down from our church to help with registration and honestly there were people who did not know how to get into the sanctuary. The 80 member figure discussed above is probably more like 40 or 50 who will actually support the remaining church. The Paola Church under Kirk's direction has been a shining example of Christian love in the community for years, frequently in the local newspaper with good things going on. Now the newspaper article is a disengenuous discussion of this episode. So much for winning the lost for a few months at least. But through all of this God will ultimately have His way and His work will continue. "
Nate O wrote on Nov 14, 2007 4:13 PM:
" I am still amazed that pastors and elders feign surprise at these moves. I have to question the faith of any pastor or elder who takes an ordiantion vow to abide by denominational polity then casts it aside when it doesn't suit their purposes. It is sad, especially on the part of these so-called ministers who serve the idol of their own 'Priesthood' without understanding they were called to serve people, not to lead them like demogogues. Disgustingly unprofessional. "
Robert Burdge wrote on Nov 14, 2007 3:17 PM:
" The Heartland Presbytery has announced that it is removing the Session of the FPC in Paola effective today at Noon. The charges brought against the Session were specious. The Commission members could not show were any of the actions taken by the Session violated the Book of Order.
What the Session members (and a majority of members of FPC in Paola) are guilty of is not accepting the PSCUSA's distorted view of Christian Doctrine. The Session was not charged with this, however, because the Presbytery and the PCUSA cannot support their agenda from the Bible.
The PCUSA ordains Pastor's that deny Scriptural Authoriry and the exclusiveness of Salvation by Christ, and they seek to allow persons involved in unrepentant sin to be Elders and Pastors.
Despite this, the members seeking dismissal with property are not willing to waste Christ's money fighting in court with the PCUSA. We will continue in a new place and allow the PCUSA to have their prize. The Lord knows who has been faithful.
"
Jim wrote on Nov 14, 2007 2:55 PM:
" I realize that Heartland is demonstrating the Christian spirit, and truly believes that the "true church" will be the 80 or so that remain...however, I'll bet their theology would change if the offer was upped from $40,000. It's not about the "true church" folks; it's about the money. "
Jack o'Brien wrote on Nov 14, 2007 10:55 AM:
" Attorney Hallquist is not telling the truth when he says that those seeking dismissal from the PC(USA) are not entitled to their property. That notion does not appear anywhere in any document, or ecclesial decision of the PC(USA). In fact, it is proven false by the fact that churches all over the country have, indeed, left the PC(USA) with their property. PC(USA) can't handle the truth. "
Ryan DeBok wrote on Nov 13, 2007 1:41 AM:
" I'm the youthpastor at FPCPaola. And I wanted to give some insight into what's happening from our kid's perspectives. I had a couple of kids come in to the youth center this afternoon, pretty ticked that there's the possibility of our session being booted, along with the pastor, and consequentially the staff and many members who voted IN this sesson and pastor to lead our church. But mostly because it looks like we're losing everything. Their drums, their couches, their new (old and donated) pool table, their cafe. And even though these things are ... well, things... this space has been a meeting area for nearly a hundred students grades 6-12th every week, and has become... sacred. Students have knelt at the altar in that youth room, confessing sins, receiving prayer from their small group leaders, and giving their lives to Jesus for the first time, and second time, and third time...
So I asked them. What's there to like about our youth group? They said "the people", "learning about God in ways we understand.", and "it's fun".
Ok, we haven't lost everything. :) "
Mac McCarty wrote on Nov 12, 2007 3:26 PM:
" Larry wrote: "How the remaining 80 or so "true members" of the Paola church will be able to payoff a $950,000 mortgage remains to be seen."
Good question. Even harder to answer when one considers that many of the "no" votes came from folks who had not worshipped at Paola for years, who were asked to come inflate the "no" vote, and who have not returned after the vote. I feel for the folks who have been misled into believing that if they will only toe the presbytery's line, they will get to "keep" their church. How loyal will they be when they learn that the presbytery will soon transfer them to other churches and will then try to sell the property and pocket the proceeds (if any there be)? "
Rod wrote on Nov 12, 2007 11:16 AM:
" It is clear that the instruction of the Louisville Papers are being followed to the letter by Heartland. While not a member of that congregation I'm discouraged.
How sad for them to claim that Paola is not showing grace and is being offensive considering their own actions.
How sad for the commission to stand on the Book of Order when the Presbytery they serve routinely ignores it even on foundational issues of Christology and the nature of our covenant relationship as Presbyterians and all believers to procedural issues like changing the constitution and even the way this commission was formed. How sad that they can claim they are the "true church" even in conflict to the Book of Order (4.01 and 4.02)
Read 2 Timothy 4:3-4. My friends, they no longer listen. Pray for all of us. This will end up in a secular court soon. Read on to verses 5,6 and 7. Is that how the "schismatic" majority of Paola is feeling? Being poured out as an offering, their time for departure near. They fought the good fight, kept the faith... "
Larry wrote on Nov 11, 2007 5:12 PM:
" It appears the Heartland Presbytery is willing to cut off its nose to spite its face. How the remaining 80 or so "true members" of the Paola church will be able to payoff a $950,000 mortgage remains to be seen.
In today's soft real estate market the potential for selling the property is probably quite bleak. While church buildings might cost millions to build their resale value is literally pennies on the dollar.
It looks like the Heartland Presbytery will take possession of a property that will cost them thousands of dollars to maintain.
Whoever holds the mortgage may be forced to foreclose the property.
Not a good way to resolve a theological issue. But then Heartland Presbytery has never been known to adhere to theological doctrines. "
Toby Brown wrote on Nov 10, 2007 4:59 PM:
" Mark,
I thought the Sermon on the Mount was some pretty good preaching by Jesus! :) "
Rev. John Erthein wrote on Nov 10, 2007 11:04 AM:
" The Presbytery leadership should be ashamed of itself for its crabbed, narrow and mean-spirited behavior. Their attitude is an embarassment to Presbyterians everywhere. "
mark holscher wrote on Nov 10, 2007 9:30 AM:
" Unfortunetly this situation is what is wrong with organized religion across the world today as it has been for centuries. The origional purpose of gathering to worship was to spread the good news of Jesus Christ our savior.
Today there are thousands of religions around the world and they all want their followers to believe what they believe and have in many cases lost thier purpose or mission. Instead
they focus on builing projects and technology and growing their numbers in place of the simple process of spreading the word of the gospel and keeping it as simple as possible in the process. This would include being tolerant of others who may disagree with their opinions an leave it up to them to return to church or not.
When a church starts to modify its
basic belief system in order to keep members or grow there church numbers the mission has been lost.
None of us are perfect and have all the answers, the only one who did was Jesus Christ an isn't it interesting that he often answered peoples questions with questions instead of preaching. "